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	<title>Comments on: The Test &#8211; Is Jesus The Lord?</title>
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	<link>http://sphodra.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/the-test-is-jesus-the-lord/</link>
	<description>Where George writes on language learning, Bible study and whatever else interests him</description>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://sphodra.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/the-test-is-jesus-the-lord/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 05:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting... nothing like underhanded advertising.

Well, if that be the case, they are barking up the wrong tree with me. Not interested. And if nothing else, &quot;blood out of turnip,&quot; and all. Spent my last bit of expendable book-cash on &lt;em&gt;Lord Jesus Christ&lt;/em&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting&#8230; nothing like underhanded advertising.</p>
<p>Well, if that be the case, they are barking up the wrong tree with me. Not interested. And if nothing else, &#8220;blood out of turnip,&#8221; and all. Spent my last bit of expendable book-cash on <em>Lord Jesus Christ</em>!</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Norelli</title>
		<link>http://sphodra.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/the-test-is-jesus-the-lord/#comment-243</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Norelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 05:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Something&#039;s afoot.  Someone named Dennis left a comment on my blog suggesting the same book and linking to the same site.  Me thinks someone is trying to draw attention to their material...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something&#8217;s afoot.  Someone named Dennis left a comment on my blog suggesting the same book and linking to the same site.  Me thinks someone is trying to draw attention to their material&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://sphodra.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/the-test-is-jesus-the-lord/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for reading, Anders.

I agree, the historical Jesus was certainly Jewish. I believe &quot;pro-Torah&quot; to be reasonable, though I would say he was seriously dismissive of the way Jews of the day were practicing and teaching Torah and its application. 

Just offhand, Christianity (contrary to some popular belief) is not anti-Torah. Jewish Christians are never &lt;em&gt;required&lt;/em&gt; to leave Torah-observance, and never criticized as long as their Torah observance does not hinder full communal involvement with Gentile believers. Gentile believers are not bound to Torah observance, as that would clutter the whole meaning of faith for them, seeming to bring in law as a &lt;em&gt;requirement&lt;/em&gt; for full community inclusion. Torah is considered good, but that&#039;s not the point!

As far as Hebrew Matthew being original, I believe that will not stand up to historical or textual scrutiny. Current scholarship finds Matthew to be based on both Mark and a sayings text, Q, neither of which is original Hebrew. It is mid to late first-century, which means there are many other texts by Christians with clearer provenance, in Greek. Nor is it likely that Hebrew was the primary language of his core followers, as most attested statements of Jesus tend to provide us with a picture of Aramaic sayings being propagated as the earliest and most reliable.

If you look at history, you will find that Matthew is later in time than the writings of Paul. Paul makes clear what the beliefs and teachings of Jesus-followers were at an earlier date. He shows that Jesus was treated in a very unique and un-precedented way by his Jewish followers. They saw him as uniquely related to their single and unique God, and gave him worship. This even when criticized directly that they were worshiping two Gods, they passionately articulated how the devotion given to Christ was &lt;em&gt;to&lt;/em&gt; the Father, and the glory given to God was &lt;em&gt;through&lt;/em&gt; Christ.

By this I mean to say that Jewish Christians, not some Gentile offshoot or Hellenizing force, are responsible for the statements about Jesus and the progression in history that led to Paul, the gospels, and the movement known as Christianity.

For all of this, I suggest reading the book I was quoting in the first place, &lt;em&gt;Lord Jesus Christ&lt;/em&gt; by Larry W. Hurtado.

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;maranatha!&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for reading, Anders.</p>
<p>I agree, the historical Jesus was certainly Jewish. I believe &#8220;pro-Torah&#8221; to be reasonable, though I would say he was seriously dismissive of the way Jews of the day were practicing and teaching Torah and its application. </p>
<p>Just offhand, Christianity (contrary to some popular belief) is not anti-Torah. Jewish Christians are never <em>required</em> to leave Torah-observance, and never criticized as long as their Torah observance does not hinder full communal involvement with Gentile believers. Gentile believers are not bound to Torah observance, as that would clutter the whole meaning of faith for them, seeming to bring in law as a <em>requirement</em> for full community inclusion. Torah is considered good, but that&#8217;s not the point!</p>
<p>As far as Hebrew Matthew being original, I believe that will not stand up to historical or textual scrutiny. Current scholarship finds Matthew to be based on both Mark and a sayings text, Q, neither of which is original Hebrew. It is mid to late first-century, which means there are many other texts by Christians with clearer provenance, in Greek. Nor is it likely that Hebrew was the primary language of his core followers, as most attested statements of Jesus tend to provide us with a picture of Aramaic sayings being propagated as the earliest and most reliable.</p>
<p>If you look at history, you will find that Matthew is later in time than the writings of Paul. Paul makes clear what the beliefs and teachings of Jesus-followers were at an earlier date. He shows that Jesus was treated in a very unique and un-precedented way by his Jewish followers. They saw him as uniquely related to their single and unique God, and gave him worship. This even when criticized directly that they were worshiping two Gods, they passionately articulated how the devotion given to Christ was <em>to</em> the Father, and the glory given to God was <em>through</em> Christ.</p>
<p>By this I mean to say that Jewish Christians, not some Gentile offshoot or Hellenizing force, are responsible for the statements about Jesus and the progression in history that led to Paul, the gospels, and the movement known as Christianity.</p>
<p>For all of this, I suggest reading the book I was quoting in the first place, <em>Lord Jesus Christ</em> by Larry W. Hurtado.</p>
<p><strong><em>maranatha!</em></strong></p>
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		<title>By: Anders Branderud</title>
		<link>http://sphodra.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/the-test-is-jesus-the-lord/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>Anders Branderud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hello! I found your website. My name is Anders Branderud and I am from Sweden.

You write: “There are many who want to make Christianity “inclusive”. I agree that Jesus is offered to all, no doubt. But the Christian message is distinct from every other religious statement out there.”
Who was the historical “Jesus”?

Did you know that the original “Matthew” was written in Hebrew and it’s called Hebrew Matityahu. It speaks about an Orthodox Jewish leader..

I am a follower of Ribi Yehoshua – Mashiakh – who practiced Torah including Halakhah with all his heart.
He was born in Betlehem 7 B.C.E . His faher name was Yoseiph and mother’s name was Mir′ yâm. He had twelve followers. He tought in the Jewish batei-haknesset (synagogues). Thousands of Jews were interested in His Torah-teachings. The “Temple” Sadducees (non-priests who bought their priest-ship in the “Temple” from the Romans, because they were assimilated Hellenist and genealogically non-priests acting as priests in the “Temple”; they were known by most 1st-century Jews as “Wicked Priests.” decided to crucify him. So they did - together with the Romans. His followers were called Netzarim (meaning offshoots [of a olive tree]) and they continued to pray with the other Jews in the synagogues.

Christianity does not teach the teachings of Ribi Yehoshua. Ribi Yehoshuas teachings were pro-Torah.
This book is a good introduction - “How Jesus Became Christian” av Barrie Wilson, Ph.D.

If you want to learn more click at our website www.netzarim.co.il -- than click at the lick &quot;Christians&quot;; click at my photo to read about what made my switch religion from Christianity to Orthodox Judaism.

Anders Branderud
Follower of Ribi Yehoshua in Orthodox Judaism</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello! I found your website. My name is Anders Branderud and I am from Sweden.</p>
<p>You write: “There are many who want to make Christianity “inclusive”. I agree that Jesus is offered to all, no doubt. But the Christian message is distinct from every other religious statement out there.”<br />
Who was the historical “Jesus”?</p>
<p>Did you know that the original “Matthew” was written in Hebrew and it’s called Hebrew Matityahu. It speaks about an Orthodox Jewish leader..</p>
<p>I am a follower of Ribi Yehoshua – Mashiakh – who practiced Torah including Halakhah with all his heart.<br />
He was born in Betlehem 7 B.C.E . His faher name was Yoseiph and mother’s name was Mir′ yâm. He had twelve followers. He tought in the Jewish batei-haknesset (synagogues). Thousands of Jews were interested in His Torah-teachings. The “Temple” Sadducees (non-priests who bought their priest-ship in the “Temple” from the Romans, because they were assimilated Hellenist and genealogically non-priests acting as priests in the “Temple”; they were known by most 1st-century Jews as “Wicked Priests.” decided to crucify him. So they did &#8211; together with the Romans. His followers were called Netzarim (meaning offshoots [of a olive tree]) and they continued to pray with the other Jews in the synagogues.</p>
<p>Christianity does not teach the teachings of Ribi Yehoshua. Ribi Yehoshuas teachings were pro-Torah.<br />
This book is a good introduction &#8211; “How Jesus Became Christian” av Barrie Wilson, Ph.D.</p>
<p>If you want to learn more click at our website <a href="http://www.netzarim.co.il" rel="nofollow">http://www.netzarim.co.il</a> &#8212; than click at the lick &#8220;Christians&#8221;; click at my photo to read about what made my switch religion from Christianity to Orthodox Judaism.</p>
<p>Anders Branderud<br />
Follower of Ribi Yehoshua in Orthodox Judaism</p>
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